Comments on: Our Composting God: Making Meaning of the Mess http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/our-composting-god-making-meaning-of-the-mess/ an opti-mystic friend of Jesus in a post-conventional world Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:36:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Carl McColman http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/our-composting-god-making-meaning-of-the-mess/#comment-1425 Carl McColman Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:32:49 +0000 http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-1425 I've seen communities with idealistic commitments to egalitarianism and non-authoritarian decision-making succumb to unconscious power-tripping, hidden agendas, and persons with naturally dominating personalities basically running the show by default. So I guess I tend to be rather skeptical of ideological egalitarianism. I think balance is helpful, where having openly acknowledged, accountable, and limited authority in what is essentially a democratic and, as much as possible, consensus-driven environment is probably the most workable/helpful scenario. Somebody named Irving Kristol once wrote a book called "Two Cheers for Capitalism" in which he admitted that capitalism wasn't perfect (hence no third cheer) but he felt it was the best of all imperfect systems. I disagree with him about capitalism (!) but I agree with him that every system has a downside and so organizations have to decide where compromises need to be made for the overall good. I’ve seen communities with idealistic commitments to egalitarianism and non-authoritarian decision-making succumb to unconscious power-tripping, hidden agendas, and persons with naturally dominating personalities basically running the show by default. So I guess I tend to be rather skeptical of ideological egalitarianism. I think balance is helpful, where having openly acknowledged, accountable, and limited authority in what is essentially a democratic and, as much as possible, consensus-driven environment is probably the most workable/helpful scenario. Somebody named Irving Kristol once wrote a book called “Two Cheers for Capitalism” in which he admitted that capitalism wasn’t perfect (hence no third cheer) but he felt it was the best of all imperfect systems. I disagree with him about capitalism (!) but I agree with him that every system has a downside and so organizations have to decide where compromises need to be made for the overall good.

]]> By: Coming Out of the “Pagan Christianity” Closet « zoecarnate http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/our-composting-god-making-meaning-of-the-mess/#comment-1374 Coming Out of the “Pagan Christianity” Closet « zoecarnate Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:43:23 +0000 http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-1374 [...] impulse, the glassy-eyed nostalgia which longs for some ecclesial golden age. Understandable. I do too. And in my early days of house churching (not to mention my early days of being Pentecostal nearly [...] [...] impulse, the glassy-eyed nostalgia which longs for some ecclesial golden age. Understandable. I do too. And in my early days of house churching (not to mention my early days of being Pentecostal nearly [...]

]]> By: Andrew B http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/our-composting-god-making-meaning-of-the-mess/#comment-1369 Andrew B Mon, 04 Feb 2008 23:25:09 +0000 http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-1369 We have daughters who are <a href="http://www.internationalesocialisten.org/" rel="nofollow">radical socialists</a>, so I recognise your thoughtful wife's thought about the 'dictatorship of the proletariat. I recently read a little booklet by Gene Edwards <a href="http://www.librarything.com/work/details/24135124" rel="nofollow">"Why So Many House Churches Fail and What to Do about It"</a>. The main message is: - we will fail - as individual Christians - as church - we are failures - we are imperfect - we will not get it right But that is OK - as we accept Christ - God will heal and restore - we will become perfect in Him Edwards writes: "The day that each of us realizes that we are in fact a failure at being spiritual, we can begin doing what first century Christians did: hold on to one another for dear life - a glorious guild of failures, a club of the spiritually helpless, together stumbling our way to Christ. "It is called church life." I think the advantage of house church environments over institutional church environments is that we are confronted much more directly with our failure. We do not have the shell of the institution and tradition around us with the appearance of holding things together or taking the blame for the failure. The failure is ours - us together sitting in this room in this house. We have to face one another and face Christ in our failure. So, let us be gentle in imposing our 'dictatorship of the proletariat' on one another. We have daughters who are radical socialists, so I recognise your thoughtful wife’s thought about the ‘dictatorship of the proletariat.

I recently read a little booklet by Gene Edwards “Why So Many House Churches Fail and What to Do about It”.

The main message is:
- we will fail
- as individual Christians
- as church
- we are failures
- we are imperfect
- we will not get it right
But that is OK
- as we accept Christ
- God will heal and restore
- we will become perfect in Him

Edwards writes:

“The day that each of us realizes that we are in fact a failure at being spiritual, we can begin doing what first century Christians did: hold on to one another for dear life - a glorious guild of failures, a club of the spiritually helpless, together stumbling our way to Christ.

“It is called church life.”

I think the advantage of house church environments over institutional church environments is that we are confronted much more directly with our failure. We do not have the shell of the institution and tradition around us with the appearance of holding things together or taking the blame for the failure. The failure is ours - us together sitting in this room in this house. We have to face one another and face Christ in our failure.

So, let us be gentle in imposing our ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ on one another.

]]> By: Cowardly Comments Behind the Mask of Anonymity « zoecarnate http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/our-composting-god-making-meaning-of-the-mess/#comment-1354 Cowardly Comments Behind the Mask of Anonymity « zoecarnate Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:59:22 +0000 http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-1354 [...] –On Our Composting God: Making Meaning of the Mess [...] [...] –On Our Composting God: Making Meaning of the Mess [...]

]]> By: I Should Coco « Sensual Jesus http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/our-composting-god-making-meaning-of-the-mess/#comment-1338 I Should Coco « Sensual Jesus Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:02:20 +0000 http://zoecarnate.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-1338 [...] emerging…moving from something and towards something…inclusive but transcendent…evolving…adapting…changing…looking back but also looking onward and [...] [...] emerging…moving from something and towards something…inclusive but transcendent…evolving…adapting…changing…looking back but also looking onward and [...]

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